I never use The Razor-back in fact I give them away just to get rid of them

I still hate the grordbort weapons. they are overpowered.

Valve still hates the sniper...

@Len K.: Nah. Do you realize how confusing that would be?

I don't know- would it be a good idea to introduce team killing into the game, just like meet the spy?

It would de-incentivise spychecking all the time lest you kill everyone in your team.

As a dedicated Pyro player confirm that Jarate is one of the most consistent anti Pyro weapons I face.
Also, fuck the Huo Long. Valve crossed a line there, fire is the Pyro's thing. It's a shit class already, that's all it had going.

Considering as soon as I go into a server playing Spy half the enemy team rolls a Pyro, it's saying something.

Backstab spahs can be annoying, but being aware by listening for a decloak or backstab sound and then jarateing their direction as soon as possible is usually effective. Bushwacka then one-shots them. The tactic works on Demo, Scout, Medic, Engie and to an extent Pyro and Heavy as well.

@Razor snipah: I don't stab them, I either enforcer them to death or headshot them twice with the ambassador. You still shoot first, they only have one effective weapon at that range (Because they lack an SMG) and if no one was around it was totally safe...Can still stop chainstabbing however...

@Latino-Freak:

i already thought of that, but nowadays i dont see that much sun on a stick-pyro teams unless theyre friends with skype etc

Huo Long heatmaker, also known as thre "replacement pyro"

I like to use the Jarate + Bushwacka combo.

The Jarate makes all damage mini-crits and the Buswacka makes all mini-crits to criticals.

And the Jarate gives me reason to shout "DRINK PISS YOU BLOODY WANKA" into the mic.

Actually you can counter the new minigun with one button: Space. Just jump over it. The hitbox is like 5cm off the ground anyway and it instantly disappears when you kill the heavy holding the weapon. You can also stab him between the fire burts. Heavy wearing that weapon is easy targets.Out of spac

@bodmans: What are you talking about? It means JARATE PARTY!!! (Also Milk Party)

Besides, you could have a Pyro with The Degreaser + The Neon Annihilator and a Scout with Mad Milk + Sun-on-a-stick. Imagine the possibilities!!!

...but yeah, besides those scenarios, it's near useless.

i agree with that, but i hear NO-ONE about the new pyro wep: crit on enemies that are WET...

it may be usefull to counter enemies when youre accidentaly in the water, but in that enviroment shotgun is better.

aka just a new pyro melee that's near to useless

The Razor-back wouldn't be this bad if it was invisible, or small enough to be worn under the jacket.
It could be countered anyways, but no spy would feel safe not knowing whether the target is wearing one or not. Jarate would still be a better option tho.

No, stop saying razor back is useless. Please. It will give you a chance to shot/chop this backstaber to death, or flee, and much spies wont dare to stab a razorback user.

@Davtwan: Not only jumping. If you observe the cycles of the fire ring, you can time your backstab to make it a clean run (worked twice, failed once).

@The Everything,man: It means when you hit somebody with it, they die without any HP calculation.

@StealthToast: Oh I didn't know that!

and what does insta-kills mean anyway?

Only really enjoy playing spy because I like to feel stealthy. I like the fact that every class has a anti me weapon, makes those backstabs and saps feel so much more...Satisfying...The fact that the invis watch has a time limit, to increase the feeling of stealth on kill...Love spy...

The spy is a pretty overpowered class, if you consider that simply by existing he forces everybody else to take numerous precautions against him at all times.

I hear it becomes second nature eventually; but it is quite a learning curb.

As for the Razorback, I only found one use for it. When I'm Huntsman Sniper and in the push, it gives Spy a second thing to worry about in chainstabbing.

In most other situations? Very useless, especially any scenario where Sniper is all by himself.

@Healer_LFG: GOOD Spies don't decloak where they can be heard. Moreover, Invisible Watch can only be heard at near point-blank. Got one of the louder watches? Cloak when there's lots of noise to drown it out.

Sadly for Heavy, Spies can jump over the ring of fire. It's more useful as anti-Spy tech when Heavy is in a group.

Nevertheless, making Spy jump could prevent the dreaded sidestab.

Even good medics make mistakes or get distracted. Most of the backstabs I get on good medics are when their team is making a big push, getting set on fire by a scorch shot or backburner pyro, or just generally in chaos and the medic has 6 people calling for medic.

Well Healer, Saharan Spies with Cloak & Dagger / Invis Watch don't even have a decloak sound.

One day scout will get a ranged sapper, and the balancing will be complete.

@DM123
Pshh, GOOD medics have nothing to worry about from anything but saharan spies. Train your ears to hear the decloak, and ust spin around or walk backwards, since your buddy has the front covered. Hear the decloak? Whip out your saw. He fled? Spam syringes until your buddy finds the spy.

no more ponies

@DM1293

The kunai is for professionals, with standards.

Not some no hoper dag of a spy

@Zacsi: Jo's main running joke in tf2 is that sniper, is the butt of the joke. While I disagree that all snipers are bad (i play :P) I still think that snipers need to know when there are TOO MANY of them. Same goes for spies. I just go solider when there's more than 2 snipers :P

@MeowMix: NO. The main reason that there are no grenades in tf is that during beta testing, the grenades were breaking gameplay and abusive. Besides, NEVER. NEVER. EVER. Compare tf2 to any other shooter games. It's not better, not worse. It's in its own league. :D

Thankfully, the one class that doesn't have any Anti-Spy gear is the Medic. Could you imagine him being able to counter spies? Between that and Demoknights, Bleed/Milk scouts, Jarate, Huo Long, Pyros, Pomsons, and the general destruction of Soldiers...only the Medic lacks a solid option.

For now.

The Kunai is as dumb as the Razorback: very rarely do I see a spy use it effectively. They usually just die.

Spies aren't too bad for Sniper anyway. Jarate and Shiv and they're runnin for it. If you get stabbed as a sniper, start listening to footsteps and such. You're blind, not deaf. Or go bow.

So...why the fuck does each class need anti-spy gear? its already hard enough to play spy with people who don't know what their doing (friendly spies tend to screw other spies x.x) why? is it truly necessary to keep kicking the spy?

@The Everything,man: Umm...insta-kills the Spy on backstab? Sounds overpowered. Plus, the Razorback already is electric anyway, technically.

THAT :D IS A BLOODY SPY

This truth makes me cry.

SPY

Here's a good Idea! an Electrical Razor,back! so when the Spy goes to stab him in the back, he gets electrocuted and he dies behind the Sniper!

Pretty cool idea huh!?!

Tf2 Sniper should have a claymore mine like in Battlefield instead of that ridiculous razorback.

Someday they'll have to give the Spy some class countering weapons. I grow tired of Valve having to pump out all these noob anti-spy weapons just because some people don't know how to spycheck or watch they're back.

Half the time with jarate they'll just run back to their team. Dead ringer makes this a high probability they'll make it to their team.

I find jarate is a lot better for demos, soldiers, and heavies. It lets the rest of your team kill them. Even the loan soldier can break a medic covered heavy.

I just want to say that most good snipers I know prefer using the SMG, because it is a good gun, and, as a spy player, I kinda laugh at snipers who use the razorback and either ignore them, shoot them, or just break the shield, go hide for a few seconds, then backstab them for using the razorback.

The only map where Razorback is useful: Degroot Keep.

I wonder if one of the Spy's weapons would be one of YouTube's favourite know'n as the Buutsecks!! attack.

That would be funny along with a knife for his crotch weapon Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaahhhhh!

The middle panel needs a Pyro brandishing a giant lollipop in anger that the Heavy gets a *flamethrower* weapon, however limited it might be.

The Huo Long only stops bad spys. The good ones just jump over the fire ring and kill ya.

The Razorback would be at least usable if it didn't show up on the character model, or perhaps under the snipers vest so you can just see it sticking out a little bit. That way inattentive spies might actually stab it and not just ignore/ambassador you at their discretion.

Actually if a spy uses 'Your Eternal Reward', the razorback can seveely set a spy of that type back And a smart sniper who uses the razorback does so with a sentry gun to cover him. It has uses... but you definently have to think a fair bit more if you want to actually make good use of it.

I'm not sure if somebody's said this (they prolly have), but I'm not going to take the time to check - the Heatmaker is easily countered by either the Ambassador or the Kunai. Using the Kunai is prolly the easiest counter; yes, you are lit on fire, but then you instantly extinguish yourself.

@Chessrook44 Except that the spy's basic revolver can still keep you in three hits at medium range, so the only difference is that he's going to take an extra half-second to kill you, and you don't have a secondary weapon to fight with.

@Lobster: I am guessing you're pretty bad at handling enemy spies. Especially seeing as you can easily reveal a spy trough random shooting or just use Jarate, Mad Milk, any flame weapon, Pomson and any weapon with bleeding effect to negate his cloak.

@Zacsi: obviously you dont play on my server where every ten seconds you see a sniper get a kill in the killfeed

Thing is, by now Spies know what it does, so they tend to not even bother. And with snipers having their focus on the area in front of them, they don't even notice.

The best kind of repellant is one that allows you to not even realize they're there.

And the Scout throws his cum at the Spy.

I'd suggest that the Spy just stays home.

I'm shedding a single tear for the poor, poor spy. The spy who has the most extra items. The spy who ALWAYS gets a new toy in every multi-class update, including the one that brought us the Huo Long. The spy who can remain cloaked indefinitely. Poor, poor, poor defenseless spy.

I think the Jarate is a very good spy defense when used with the Bushwacka, so long as said spy isn't using the enforcer.

and the Spy just keeps getting dumped on

@Lathurs all very true, but it's not much more exaggerated against pyros than any other class. It's not a counter in the same magnitude that the minigun is a counter against pyros.

Alot of people seem to be thinking of using the heatmaker alot differently than i think of using it, if you're going to be constantly deployed and consuming ammo because of it you need to be near a dispenser to get maximum effect, so this is just a support heavy for engie deffense.

Sometimes...sometimes the RAGE gets to me.
And I just drop all reason and just switch to the enemy team and devote 100% to killing those fuckers 24/7. Its not usefull in any way (ironic really) but in a way its a zen-like stress reliaver.
Those fucking machina-gibus snipers never learn.

Jo are you implying that snipers deserve any form of mercy?
90% of the games I fail are because 5 faggots think its sooo uber 1337 c00l to play sniper sitting at the spawndoor hitting absolutely fuck all not doing anything usefull meanwhile I die on the battlefield because our team is 5 man short.

Well, the heatmaker encourage stoic deployment so an Ambassador/any Sniper rifle will instantly take care of Hoovy.

Also, Sniper's got Tribalman's Shiv as well, so there's at least that.

Because clearly, who gives a fuck about spies? Let us add 20 more weapons that directly or indirectly counters spies, because spy isn't a difficult class already (Against good teams mind you).

Now that's the kind I wanna see!

but what's this anti-spy tech?

Yeah I know the Razor,back but what are the others?

@Manta, that's true but at least you get the power to potentially one shot a pyro with bushwhacker or just a mini crit with other melee weapons and very importantly extinguish yourself or teammates.

@shadow_scryer *her flamethrower

The heatmaker just encourages spies to use...well, the perfectly good knives that don't melt. DR still has its use without it. And if that fails, I know many spies who'd just clock the heavy in the head with a revolver.

I just think its BS that the heatmaker has such good afterburn.

Jarate is somewhat dodgy to use against pyros actually, you may get a taste of your own medicine from trying.

Most anti Spy Tech actuly can be counterd exept the pomson As the Spy can just revolver you to death

I can almost see the pyro getting excited at being given his starting flamethrower. And the image is hilarious.

Razorback is pretty useless as most spies understand what it does, so the sniper's pokerface is legit

Last panel would have been much funnier if the sniper were handed an empty jar to fill.

Ah, missed opportunities.

I getting sick and tired of all the itsy-bitsy-teansy-weensy spy with ice knife and death watch. Now they will not bother me while I push cart!

Poor Snipah.

Oh, the ring of fire hasn't stopped me from getting backstabbed. It just means I get occasional posthumous kills.

I don't get it. What is the thing in the last panel supposed to be?

Jarate?

So an item made to counter spies also counter the counter of spies? Counterception.

@IamPSI: I have to say, when i play spy i do get angry when so many things foil my stabbing plans. But even tought, i see so many good spies making the top of the boards by more than 20 points of diference with theire teammates.

I'm starting to feel bad for spies.. and Sniper. Engies sorta.. SHOULD be weak to spies, y'know? It's the trade-off in every class.
Maybe it's just me, and I'll admit I love my OP Pomson (I'm trying to give it up, I swear! I use the stock and widowmaker!)
But yeah the Ho Long heatmaker looks daft

@zeruf: Speak about your own sniper, my sniper helps me take points and covers my ass.

Because really, the spy didn't have enough hard counters.

It is, a litte baffling that the most spy-affected of the classes has so bad anti-spy tactics. Razorback can be out taken by a revolver and its rare the ocasion the jarate gets the cloaked spy, that if he missed the backstab attempt on you(no he didnt). As a regular sniper, that is bothersome.

nobody likes snipers, NOBODY, EVER, in any game !

More shitty opinions.
Most Heavies are dumb as fuck and wouldn't hear a Spy screaming, Pomson's bullshit though. Jarate by the way.

What about Jarate?

"Making unable them hide"

My typo sense is tingling.